Stockholm Syndrome
For the last two days I’ve been listening to Derek Webb’s ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ off and on. In between phone calls and the crowded bus, I’ve been able to catch the ‘gist’ of the record, but haven’t really dove into it yet. My initial thoughts? ”Dang. He stepped up his musical game for sure.” Now, it’s not that Derek’s stuff has ever been musically sub-par or anything like that, but this record is a new level of Derek Webb. The loops are cool, the beats are cool, and the melodies are some of the best I’ve heard come from him. That alone is worth getting the record. And that’s not even mentioning the amazing sixty minute video of the making of the record.
Now, I know there’s plenty of controversy about ‘the cussing song’ and I’ve read a lot of different opinions of people expressing their now “loss of respect” or “gain of respect” for Derek Webb. So I’m curious. What’s the crowd here’s consensus? He cusses in a song. Yep. The big ol’ ‘SH’ word. I’ve seen things written from parents saying they won’t let their kids listen to it because he’s supposed to be a ‘Christian’ and there’s nothing Christian about cussing. I’m curious though. How many of those parents allowed their kids to see any of the latest ‘big movies’ this summer? Any cussing in those movies? Any sexual references? Any “explicit” content? I’m guessing there was. And I’m not saying that just because you let your kids see Transformers, you should let them say whatever they want, but I’m curious about the folks that are so quick to throw Derek under the bus because he says one word that might offend you. We’re you not offended in those movies? Or is it because he’s a Christian and only sinners talk that way?
Here’s what I don’t want to come out of this post. I don’t want to start a fight between the ‘Webb-heads’ and the ‘Christian-Christians’. I know there are plenty of folks out there who live and breathe anything Derek says and I think that’s fine, but let’s do our best to keep it civil. So what do we think? Who’s heard the record, and what are your thoughts on it musically, lyrically and (since the conversation will go this way anyway) what do you think of the ‘cuss word that shook CCM’?
I haven’t heard the record yet and I plan on buying it when I get out of the car tonight. But I really like your point (and I didn’t really think about it) the whole idea of letting kids to go and see movies that have terrible things in them but when a Christian artist cusses it is the end of the world. It also makes me wonder why nobody complains when Christians that are in the mainstream music world do things that are not Christ like? Are they allowed to since they are not in the “Christian” industry
I have nothing to contribute other than the fact that I think it’s awesome to differentiate between “Webb-heads” and “Christian-Christians.” It sort of highlights how petty stuff like this is.
I haven’t ever listened to his music, so I really can’t weigh in on this. I do think it’s ridiculous for people to get bent out of shape over one word. I’m sure none of those “good Christians” use substitute words (shoot, sheesh, etc.) Isn’t that just as bad? I’ve been told I cuss because I say ‘crap’.
Yeah the s-word didn’t bother me. I actually thought it was pretty appropriate for the message of the song.
And yes, like you, I thought that this album stepped it way up musically for Derek. I’ve told a couple people that his music has finally caught up with his lyrics. Not that he didn’t have great music before but I always thought his lyrics were more powerful. Not so with Stockholm Syndrome. Great riffs and loops. Killer album.
If Christians take offense to his offensive language, they will not have gotten the message of the song the offensive language appears in.
Can’t wait to hear the whole project.
Which I hear I can get RIGHT NOW if I visit derekwebb.com.
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haven’t heard the song or the album. so i won’t attempt to pass any sort of opinionated judgment.
i think philosophically it’s an interesting situation to think about.
now, if i’m honest, i’m not too excited about Christians swearing (at all), even though it is become more and more acceptable in our culture.
but, hey, we have liberty and not condemnation in Christ.
thanks Lord.
i guess my question for the pro-curse folks would be: why is it exciting that a well-known Christian artist is FINALLY swearing on his record? to me it seems like a lot of the excitement is about the swear word and not as much about the message that it is attempting to illustrate…
don’t want to be rude about it, but so far on the ‘ole blogosphere i’ve only seen people talking about the s-word…i haven’t seen anyone talk about the message/point of the song.
i mean, does the s-word actually make this song’s message legit? if so…wouldn’t even more swears make him even MORE legit?
and if it doesn’t, then was it necessary?
First of all I will say that I am not one of those Christians whose ears burn off when I hear someone “cuss”. But I am also not one who thinks there is nothing wrong with it either. The ultimate question we have to ask ourselve when doing anything is: Does this bring glory to God? If the answer is no then it is not worth doing. So does this song bring glory to God? And more specific, does the use of that word bring glory to God? Personally I would say no (although you could debate that it is only up to the author). The reason I say no comes down to two points that are very clear in scripture. 1) The first would be to only let wholesome things leave our lips. Now we all know this is impossible as we all express things from vulgar language to things said in anger from time to time. But with something as concentrated as a song…where lyrics are thought out..it can be avoided. 2) The second is that we are to be to be different, set apart and above reproach. We should not look, think, act and speak like the world. We should be different in a way that is both loving and a positive yet clear example of what it means to be a follower of Christ. Lastly I want to say that I completely get why he did it and I understand what he was trying to say. There clearly are bigger issues than language…but language still is an issue. Just because there are bigger fish to fry doesnt mean that we just throw out the smaller fish. Just my personal thoughts….
Not a fan of that type of music but I respect an artist’s right to his creation done his way. Just the same way I appreciated Todd Agnew using a different “S” word that’s “not said in good Christian homes” in the album version of “My Jesus.”
People are free to choose to buy the music (or not) based on what they know. I had bought the mp3 version of “My Jesus,” and being only familiar with the radio version I was caught off-guard. Not wanting my kids to be caught singing that version at school, etc, I sent an e-mail to the label and they kindly provided me with the radio (edited) version. That was my choice. I did not decide that Agnew went from being an “outstanding artist who isn’t afraid to ask the questions people wonder about but don’t ask enough” to a “creator of sinful music who should be avoided at all costs” in my head because of one word in a song. In fact, I came to respect the song more, even if I need to be more careful about where I listen to it.
I keep hearing the Church talk about “cursing” in semantic terms (“Thou Shalt Not Speaketh any of the 7 words thou cannot sayeth on TV”) when to me the scripture speaks not to the actual words but to the motivations/feelings behind them.
The word Webb used is argued by some to be a modern equivalent of the Greek skubalon used in Phillipians 3:8 (translated into English as dung, refuse, rubbish).
Here’s the video on YouTube of the offending song. Lyrics in the info area. Warning: explicit language (duh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC0j6FTg1xU
i’ll have to get it to have any type of opinion on the matter. I just wanted to say this so I’d be the third Josh to comment
I have not had the opportunity to sit and listen to the entire record, but I have heard him cuss so I am pretty sure my life is complete now. Musically, the song is amazing. To be perfectly honest I wasn’t a huge fan of a lot of what Derek Webb had done in the past. It was good, but not amazing. Recently, I think he has made a turn for the better and with this last album, I really enjoyed the sound. If the rest of the album sounds like this I will be sure to purchase the album.
When it comes to cussing, they are only words. They can come out of our mouths with the worst of intent and other times without a bad intention at all. In my mind there is a time and a place “curse words” should and should not be used. Simply put, they make some people stumble. On the album, I think Derek was trying to make a point with the use of the word so I am all for it. And all of this controversy over the word was sort of his point. We are more worried about the cussing then what the message of the song is all about. (Whether you agree with that message or not).
I have two things to say on the matter.
One–if we spend hours debating this have we really accomplished anything? Ones personal behavior truly is a matter between them and the Lord. All of the debate in the universe is not going to make any difference in whether Derek feels or does not feel justified in his actions-only the Holy Spirit can convict a man if the Holy Spirit finds it necessary.
Two-in terms of the movies verses this incident as Brody mentioned. I think something to point out in relation to that matter is this. One should not expect to go to a such a movie without hearing/seeing such things-if they do they need to do their research. Threfore there is no “shock value” in thre presence. One expects that of a christian record/label/artist and would be thrown off guard by the presence of something of that nature. Why? We simply cannot expect the world to act like Christians, however we usually expect Christians, unfortunately, to be perfect.
Honestly? I’m at the point where I think big deal. It feels like a way to drum up interest in his music so people will buy it. What’s the point? I mean, what’s the reason? To prove Christians can be progressive and cool? To show how much it doesn’t matter, by making it matter when he releases the CD? Self-defeating.
I once heard a guy who was, more or less, a Christian artist, put damn in his song.
And he got a lot of emails about it too. And he answered by saying that, “If that’s how I feel and my songs are like journal entries, then why take out how I feel. It seems like a slap in the face of God if I’m writing a song about how I feel, yet I don’t even include my true feelings and give it some other word just so people don’t shake their heads.”
I paraphrased a bit. But I liked it cos he was trying to be transparent, he wrote a song, and it had a curse word in it. But to him, taking that out or replacing it would in a way, make the song obsolete for him, or just not be right. So I dunno, just throwing that out there.
I’ve been trying my best to stay away from commenting on this one. However, I don’t believe that being a Christ follower and using the term transparency as a reason or excuse for just saying what ever you feel at the time is valid.
(Brody, I know that this is probably poor blog etiquette to post a link to my blog in a comment on your blog, but I want to shed a different light on authenticity and transparency in the Christ follower’s walk. Therefore I apologize up front. 6 the comment or link if you must.)
The terms Authenticity and Transparency are ones that I have struggled with on my walk. I seek to know Him more and more in spirit and in truth each day. And the few here that know me know that I’m not some pin headed Christian, but a pretty progressive and cool guy.
With that said.
http://www.joegrantgage.com/?p=218
Blessings…
As purely being the devils advocate on this issue….would you go to a Christian concert and hear it live? And, would that artist be invited to a Christian Festival?
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This is an interesting topic. I think both sides have good points, and I probably could side with either depending on the day.
Just because we cuss, doesn’t make it okay. Not as a judgement being passed on other people (We ALL, including me have used cuss words). Does it make it right? No. Our mouths are to be pure in all situations (including gossip, slander, etc.) Out of the mouth, the heart speaks.
On the other side, I agree with the movie analogy. We allow children to watch shows and movies with words that are worse than what is mentioned here. So, as a Christian-Christian do we allow our kids to ONLY listen to things that are in line completely with biblical standards? That would mean all fairy tales, battle robot movies, or even just a standard comedy are out of the question. It also pushes people into a hole of only understanding “Christian” movies, music, books….basically life. In order to love others we have to be able to relate.
Overall, Derek Webb’s song wouldn’t be something I would let a 6 year old listen to (because I don’t want to explain that word at that time in their lives, but a 13 year old, ya. If they’re hearing it at school, then they might as well hear it in a situation where a parent can explain what it means (the word…and the song!)
Reminds me of a Charles Spurgeon sermon where he said, “Every day, people are leaving this life for an eternity in hell, and a lot of you don’t give a damn….. (pause) …and a lot of you are more uncomfortable that I just said ‘damn’ than that people are dying and going to hell.”
That has always effected me.
As for Webb’s new album, I think it’s great. I’m honestly not a huge fan of the 80′esque musical style, but it’s growing on me, and I think it’s fantastic lyrically!