Christians Voting For Obama
A while back I asked you all who was planning on not voting. I got a whole bunch of answers ranging from folks not planning on voting, to people claiming it was un-American to not vote, to, what I consider the best answer, from Amy explaining that not only did people fight for our right to vote, they also fought for our right to not vote. Now, here’s the thing. I do not plan on voting, and here’s why. It’s simple. I’m not registered in Tennessee to vote. Pretty easy right? Here’s the thing though, I don’t think I would vote even if I could. Maybe that makes me un-American or something, but I don’t see a good choice so I am opting out.
That being said I would like to know something from the Christians that are die-hard voting for Obama. I’ve tried to follow the different views of Obama and McCain and honestly, like every other presidential race, whoever I am listening to sounds like they are saying what I want to hear. Guys running for President are good at that I suppose. But there is one thing that has stuck out more than once to me and I haven’t really heard a clear answer about it. I’d like to know what Obama’s stance is on abortion and how that affects the Christian voter.
Historically, it’s seemed like the Christians have typically voted for the guy who has killed the least amount of babies. Is that happening this time around? Or has it become too cool to jump on board with Don Miller and other “forward thinking” Christians and simply overlook that tiny detail? Again, it seems like every time I have looked into it it’s a pretty blurred area. I still don’t really know Obama’s stance and when I find that out I’d like to know the Christian voters thoughts. Carlos, I want to hear from you on this one.
Ready? Go.
This might broaden the discussion a little, but out here in CA we’re dealing with Prop8 as well, and in this discussion on morality, Biblical truth, right and wrong, and murder (which I abortion is from the get go) I am struggling with how far we as Christians take this.
By struggling, I mean really struggling…I’m not trying to persuade an argument. If the first ammendment says that we are to have freedom of religion, and the first commandment says to have no other God’s before us, then how are we allowing the idolatry of America to happen? Shouldn’t we be fighting for that too? If I vote yes on Prop 8 which is an update to our state’s constitution that limits marriage to man and woman…am I doing that because it is Biblical truth and I believe this should be a Christian Nation? Or do I vote no because limiting Freedoms of individuals is never a valid method of compliance. Prop 8 IS discrimination, and if I choose “yes” it is because I have decided that people who don’t believe what I believe should be denied freedom. Yet the very fact we allow freedom of religion says to me that we should not be limiting peoples belief or practice on anything.
Maybe instead, we as the church and believers need to be reaching out to Homosexuals, pregnant teens, etc. and showing them with our lives and our marriages that living out this way is the BEST WAY to live because of the grace of Jesus.
When our divorce rates our no different from the world, it’s hard to get that message across. Divorce and fractured families leads to both of these topics. I’m not saying that kids who are loved don’t ever turn up pregnant and gay, but I bet you that the ones that do are more likely to give up children for adoption or lend you their ear in a discussion on homosexuality.
These are huge issues for believers, but It’s necessary to rethink how to go about getting the government involved when we can’t come up with a proper model ourselves.
…me still struggling.
Is it not only our right as citizens of the US, but also because of where we base our moral standing to encourage moral law on a level far above just a religious slant? It all comes down to where people think morality stems from.
I think that even if it is my problem to not agree with man’s law, it challenges me to stand for what I believe in. I just last night had the conversation with someone about this. She said, “Isn’t working against all these things (abortion, same-sex marriage, war, etc.) just trying to delay prophecy? I had to think about that for a while, but someone brought up the point of, “Well then all martyrs would have died in vain then.” If we aren’t going to stand for what we believe to be morally right in our nation, where we CAN have a say, then why am I even a follower of Christ? It’s almost a sign of giving up because we know that Jesus will just come back….so what’s the use.
If we stand for nothing we will fall for anything. I’m not a crazy advocate, stand on the corner type person (I don’t believe that changes peoples minds…it just feeds a fire), but I do believe that my vote counts for something.
It’s pretty easy to find out what Obama has approved as his public stance on this issue.
Check the website: http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/womenissues
under reproductive choice.
Ahhh, I get awfully pragmatic when things get all emotional. For me, it lines up like this, even though I may be a fading voice:
Abortion? No matter what or how people try to paint this, Obama is for easier abortion-access and wants to appoint “liberal” supreme court justices to continue to protect that option. Just the facts.
Obama wants to raise taxes on the people that employ people like you and I. He wants to raise taxes on the people who control your rent, when they already pay 60-something percent of the taxes anyways. He wants to raise taxes on the people who sell you your food, clothing and school supplies in this horrible time of financial crisis. Do you really think that it won’t effect that other 95% of America? History has shown the opposite.
Obama is pretty inexperienced. Give him another 4 years or something. I know, I know the arguments and I’ve thought them through. “Well, Kennedy didn’t have much experience blah blah.” Well lets just say I’m not willing to take that chance right now. Contrary to Colin Powell’s opinion, I’m not going to vote for a president on personal style or because I think he’s a transformational figure. After all, as my friend Scott said, “Optimus Prime is a transformational figure.”
For me, I just don’t agree with his policies or philosophies, abortion is one of many. This decision is honestly without considering all the crap he’s been fed every sunday morning for past 20 years that he’s suddenly developed amnesia about. But whatever. Its the policies that I’m not in line with. I’m certainly not going to get caught up in some cult-of-personality. Dangerous stuff there.
As for McCain…
McCain wants to lower taxes for everyone.
McCain wants to appoint even-keel justices.
McCain has bunches of experience in military things and we really need to finish off that crap over there. It’s time, and I think McCain could do the job better than Obama.
Maybe didn’t answer your question, but it was fun all the same.
Adam-
Regarding Prop 8, here is my take. As a father of two young children, I am deeply concerned of the confusing messages in society and the messages about marriage and homosexual relationships that they will hear in the classroom. I think that kids do not need to hear about homosexuality at such a young age. It awakens thoughts in them that ought to be dormant. Let’s let kids be kids and cross those bridges when we need to at a later time.
Commercials come out and talk about how teachers do not talk about marriage in the classroom at all. But why is the California Teacher’s Association contributing money to “No on 8″ if there is no agenda here? Clearly there is an agenda to infiltrate the classrooms with homosexual propaganda. That is disturbing to me that the CTA would financially support such a proposition that clearly should have nothing to do with eduction.
Your vote matters. Please consider this point. I was in the same boat as you not long ago, but a friend brought this point up and I can’t help but think of how important it is to build a solid foundation for our children and protect them from having to hear about homosexuality being normal and homosexual family units. Sure, this is a reality in our society and we need to educate our kids and raise them with the right values, but the more I dig into this issue from the “No on 8″ folks, the more I smell an agenda.
My two cents.
Ryan
@ Adam -
Prop 8 IS discrimination, and if I choose “yes” it is because I have decided that people who don’t believe what I believe should be denied freedom.
This isn’t a snide comment, so please filter appropriately, but I think when we get to heaven, the Lord discriminates (those whom he has known, those he does not know). If we argued with God on this topic, we would lose. THerefore, if we can find a way in a non-hatred type attitude to still love people, but not stand and embrace their beliefs in sam-sex marriage then isn’t this the goal of a CHristian? To be IN the world, but not of it is personified in how we handle situations like these. I can choose to stand and Vote yes on Prop 8 without being hateful in the way I think most people feel Christians are about this topic.
I don’t believe in stating that gay, lesbian, transgender, transsexuals are any less than me, but it is the lifestyle that I know to be incongruent with my leader (Jesus). Jesus him self said, “Go, and sin no more” That to me is where we need to stand in love and say, hey i don’t agree and i wont support it, but I still love you. Such a fine line, gray area! I understand your struggle!
Lisa-
But we don’t have or need “freedom” for all actions in our society, do we? We clearly draw lines when it comes to certain types of behaviors, choices, or expression of belief, don’t we? For example, prostitution is illegal, we have an age limit for marriage, there is an age need for obtaining a driver’s license, etc… These may not be on the same level as homosexuality, but I use these examples to illustrate the point that we clearly draw lines. The question with Prop 8 simply becomes whether we should draw a line or not. I believe that saying no to Prop 8 might sound really harsh and discriminatory, but I am willing to speak as such for the sake of children and the confusion that a “no” vote brings. What about the kids, huh? You can definitely be “in the world but not of the world” and call a spade a spade. Some actions are wrong and let’s not be afraid to say that. That does not mean that God loves any certain person less. Like I always say, heterosexal adultery is a heinous sin just like homosexuality. We need to love people and be in relatoionship with people who are gay – especially Christians who are struggling with a gay lifestyle. This is not about hating, but about loving and being willing to say that some things are not okay. It’s okay to call attention to something we believe to be righteous and then treat people with the love that Jesus does.
Why will I vote for Obama?
One of the 27 reasons…
Sarah Palin.
Are you serious?
PTA maybe.
Presidential Office?
Um…
No thank you.
what #58 said…
@Ryan…I completely agree!!
YES on 8 protects marriage! No means that we agree with same-sex marriage
We’re saying the same thing
PS….this sentence was taken from someone else and I was responding to this statement: Prop 8 IS discrimination, and if I choose “yes” it is because I have decided that people who don’t believe what I believe should be denied freedom.”
Sorry to be confusing!
i already voted.
Don’t you love politics
As of today and I am still deciding how to vote. I know who I want to vote for and it is neither McCain nor Obama. Neither of these two represent what our country needs right now. Which is a quality economic advisor that understands complete accountability and integrity. Without agenda.
The answer of where Obama stands on abortion has already been answered.
As a Christian, I can confidently say that abortion rights are not a political issue. It’s a heart issue of which politicians and voters have no right determining. True morality cannot be legislated. There is no law that can contain the heart except Gods. I am good with that.
I am anxious for this political season to be over so that peoples attention can be drawn back to ministry that is Biblically based. Not politically based.
Oh wait… That wouldn’t be ministry at all.
Lisa-
Sorry if I misunderstood you. Life has been very full for me lately. Take care.
still too much reading – now i’m voting for reagan.
Sarah Palin.
Sarah Palin.
Sarah Palin.
Sarah Palin.
Sarah Palin.
When McCain kicks it. It’s her people.
It’s her. In charge of the free world.
Why is it if a man who got a woman pregnant decides not to be a father, he is selfish, inhumane, and a deadbeat dad, but a woman who get’s pregnant and decides not to be a mother is pro-choice?
Regarding prop 8…
I am conflicted on how to vote. My preference is totally do away with marriage as a matter of the state and go to civil unions legal to all.
Realistically, I believe this is our best chance to protect our churches. I know this is not a popular opinion.
Pastor T, your stance – and Obama’s – on abortion IS a cop out. Even if you say it isn’t; it still is. Nobody’s asking you if YOU’D ever have one. The question is: Is it sin? The answer is: Yes.
Abortion SHOULD BE a higher priority issue for Christians than the economy, the environment, or our educational systems. That’s why so many single it out.
This has to be one of the scariest elections I’ve voted in…
1. Sen. Obama made a not-so-well publicized speech at the Planned Parenthood convention where he was not at all vague on his strong pro-abortion stance. He wants to sign an executive order making abortion legal to any woman at any point in her pregnancy, her choice. And government will pay for it she wants. Period. it’s on YouTube, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUl99id2SvM
or just Google:Barack Obama Addresses Planned Parenthood
2. Consider too, especially if you are Hispanic, African-American, or concerned with issues in those communities…read this piece by Kevin McCullough about the effect of abortion on a diminishing black population in the U.S.
http://townhall.com/columnists/KevinMcCullough/2008/10/26/an_open_letter_to_black_obama_supporters
3. Sen. McCain’s Supreme Court appointments may not get through a hard left Congress, but he might get a moderate seated that would be at least cautious on “life.” Meanwhile Obama wants justice who consider the hard life of minorities (he menstions blacks, Hispanics, and gays)> This means this Harvard lawyer want s justice that is not blind but considers the “fairness” to certain groups. But a blind justice system says the staus of the defendant and plaintif do not matter, but rather the facts of the case. In truly just court rooms, blacks, Hispanics, gays, the handicapped, the impoverished have been both winners and losers. If you are wrong you should win in a just system. That’s what’s fair.
But I would ask Senator Fairness-4-All, who will stand for the most under-defended, defenseless, voiceless members of society: the not-yet born. DO they get a choice, Sen. O? Or is that question above your ever-shifting pay grade?
This election is too important to sit out
BRODY – - We are on the verge of electing the most politically liberal, under qualified, inexperienced candidate in modern American history. And if he has a full Democrat House and Senate they will have unchecked power for at least two years. A lot can happen before voters get a wiff of what they’re up to and vote out Congress in 2010 as we did in 1994 when Bill Clinton had two years of unchecked power. (If you check accurate records, it was in 1994 that the economy started to boom, the Republicans pushed welfare reform (which Clinton fought, along with resisting balanced budget measure.)
A President Obama could do some real scary things in two years, not the least of which is make the Supreme court very liberal for a very long time. (Five justices are in their seventies and one is nearly eighty.)
Vote, for life so that couples will have more adoptable babies, and God’s creation will grow unchecked by the most radical (and lazy) form of birth control.
“Life of the mother” is a ruse: in every pregnancy there always at least Two patients and hospitals prepare for that.
VOTE, Brody. Please vote, like millions of lives depend on it.
“The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws in 1980 formulated the Uniform Determination of Death Act. It states that: ‘An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards.’ This definition was approved by the American Medical Association in 1980 and by the American Bar Association in 1981.”
If the above definition of death is in accordance with accepted medical standards, then the very antithesis of the definition must also be true.
Therefore, the definition of life would then HAVE TO BE the presence of circulatory and respiratory functions, OR function of the entire brain, including the brain stem.
It’s a fact that multiple cells are present mere days from conception and there is brain activity by week 3 (of a 40 week pregnancy). This is before any signs or symptoms of pregnancy are evident. Most abortions are performed between 12 and 20 weeks gestation. Some are even later. Life outside the womb is possible at 22 weeks and is clearly evident much before that time. In utero surgeries are performed on fetuses younger than this. If there is no life, why would one perform surgery?
To say that there has never been an agreement on “when life begins” is nothing more than an excuse. Why is it that evolutionists staunchly claim as fact that life, ALL life, began with some single-cell organism that just “was” and somehow transformed into millions of different species, etc; but argue over when life begins when it comes to the murder of children? I find it ironic that when we want to put it in a science book, it’s fact and anyone who doesn’t agree is ignorant of the facts. However when we want to defend the rights of the unborn, life “hasn’t been clearly defined” and choice is all that matters.
It doesn’t come down to just one issue with me either and I’m one of the 8% (according to the latest polls) that has not decided who I’m casting my vote for as yet. Abortion is a huge issue for me though, just as poverty, sexual slave trade, and the exploitation of children are.
I’m not placing my faith in the US government by any stretch. After all, convicted felons are allowed to be Congressmen (Rep. AK). Convicted felons (twice convicted to be exact) are permanently barred from voting. How then does the Congressman who is also a convicted felon able to vote on issues before Congress?
@annie
We may have to agree to disagree, but it’s NOT a copout and you told yourself why.
Yes, I believe, as you do, that abortion is a sin, but is lying, is cheating, murder? Does one sin carry more weight in the eyes of God? If it does, you’re reading a different kind of Bible.
Now then, if I am to not vote for Obama because he is pro choice, then I shouldn’t vote for McCain because he can’t tell the truth to save his life OR because he’s pro death penalty…what’s a guy to do? If all sins are equal to God, they are equal to me and I need to make the best decision for me. I need to pray over that decision and have faith that God already knows who is going to win. Instead of millions of people hanging their heads feeling sorry for themselves, while your heads are down, how bout lifting whoever it will be up in prayer.
Ya got me so fired up, I decided to talk about it a little myself. Well, minus the abortion part. http://www.whatsthislifefor.org/2008/10/30/your-vote-does-not-count/
[...] Abortion: THE Issue or One of Several? I found this interesting conversation at a blog I read fairly regularly. Brody Harper’s blog “In Case You Were Wondering” took on what many perceive to be a very difficult choice awaiting us on Election Day that turned into a point-counterpoint on abortion. Although most of us have settled on this issue, there seems to be a growing number of people re-positioning on this topic as the litmus test for their vote in this election. While the vast majority of conservative-minded voters remain pro-life, other issues are being given more and more weight. I don’t think this represents a shift in morality as much as it is indicative of a growing frustration with our leaders and their ability (or willingness) to take the pro-life movement to the next level. The post is titled “Christians Voting for Obama.” Find it here. [...]
Since Republicans have held the Oval Office for the 20 of the last 28 years, can someone tell me when, exactly, Roe v. Wade was overturned?
I consider myself Pro-Life, but I am a realist who believes that abortion is tough to legislate and is more of a heart issue than a legislative issue. Unfortunately, hard-liners out there who want government to butt out of their lives, except in this one instance.
I also believe that there is a greater chance of McCain dying in office than he is to stay alive and play a role in overturning Roe v. Wade. Quite honestly, being left with Palin scares the hell out of me.
So where does that leave me? Ugh.
@Pastor T
First of all, I never told you who to or not to vote for.
Secondly, I never said that abortion was a worse sin than any other. I said that is was a more important issue than our economic, environmental, or educational problems. (just to name a few of the “big” ones)
It seems we agree on some things but not on others, and that’s ok. No need to get “fired up.”
I have a strong feeling Obama is going to win. Abortion will continue regardless if he wins or not. Many are already participating in that act of crime!
I hate politics… i hate that it divides the church too.
Oh Annie…That’s what I hate about the internet. One may seem “fired up” but that’s not at all the emotional state I was trying to emulate
. Tough to “read” people via words. Just know I’m not at all “fired up.” LOL
.
Also, I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth (or on your fingers). Just saying that if all sins are equal, then how can one carry more weight in an election….to a Christian anyway?
The answer is probably that it won’t carry the same weight for everyone and I think that’s fine also. If we were all alike, there would be no point for discussion. We don’t have to be equal in our own minds, but just know we are equal to Him. He is the ultimate judge….I’m just along for the ride
Though I’ve appreciated the generally quite civil discourse, it has been draining and I don’t have the time or energy now for point-by-point replies. Going back to the original question, here are what I consider reasonable rationale for being a Christian that supports a pro-choice candidate:
–You can’t legislate all social dilemnas
–You can be anti-abortion while still understanding that the government does not need to impose itself on your personal life.
–The country’s led not by a cleric but by a politician.
–No matter what we believe, there’s no textbook definition of what life is. There are arguments at the beginning and end of what constitutes a living human being, but anyone who insists they know the absolute Truth on the matter apparently has a more direct connection to God than I do.
–It won’t matter. Those who say that Obama will make the Supreme Court uber-liberal are blind to the actual facts around the makeup of the Supreme Court. The two most likely candidates for retirement from the Supreme Court are considered “liberal.” Obama replacing them does nothing to over-ride the “Conservative” majority that currently exists in the Supreme Court. On the other hand, McCain, while he could make the Supreme Court “more Conservative,” does not seem to be in a hurry to overturn Roe v. Wade. Even if it is over-turned, you will have states banning abortion unconditionally, some banning with exceptions (that creates loopholes), others continuing to be pro-choice. Those states that continue to be pro-choice will likely be states where abortion is highest…IOW, abortion will not abruptly stop. So, that being the case, wouldn’t it be better to instead understand the “abortion demographic” and what issues might lead to fewer of them deciding to abort? Wouldn’t it be better to take a wholistic view instead of tying your vote exclusively on “Roe v. Wade?” You may still decide that McCain’s plan would affect the socio-economic changes that would reduce abortion rates, but one has to also appreciate that there are those who may think Obama has a better plan.
Does all that mean turning a blind eye to this issue? No. I believe that this issue can be dealt with socially. I don’t mean by fire-bombing abortion clinics. I don’t even mean standing outside them and yelling at the people who go in there.
I mean finding ways to reach out to women making such decisions before they make the trip to the clinic. Understand that once they are at the abortion clinic it is pretty much too late to change their mind. So I mean being involved, either financially or volunteering with organizations that help encourage alternatives to abortion. I mean getting yourself on a US adoption list (if abortions are banned what’s to happen with the millions of unwanted babies?). I mean lobbying to untangle the beaurocracy involved in adopting within the US. Again, why is it that it is easier and less costly to adopt from other countries than the US? If each person who is against abortion managed to convince just one person, directly or indirectly, to not have an abortion, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
And understand too, that I am not necessarily saying anything against those who have decided that the only way to stop abortion is through legislation. That’s your right as a voter. All I am saying is that there are, in my view, legitimate reasons for Christians to vote for Obama (again, per Brody’s original question). And I’m also saying that voting for Obama does not necessarily mean you want abortions to happen. For those who feel that those who vote Obama could not possibly be Christians, I congratulate you on being granted by God the ability to judge others. I haven’t been granted such an ability, so I will refuse to judge not only those who vote for a pro choice candidate but even those who decide to get an abortion. Abhor sin, but love the sinner…right?
There is one thing that I noticed with this part of elections, candiates say what they are supporting but if its different than what it is now, nothing changes… So if Obama is against abortion, more than likely, nothing will change about it in society. So this no longer becomes an issue… The biggest issue I see is healthcare and that is what Im comparing for and why I am voting for Obama….
Being a first time voter, I guess Im not as experienced in voter etiquette, if its okay to say who or what, but I dont care… I dont agree with abortion but I will vote for obama….
Plus…. we have had 42 white guys, lets get a black white guy now…. lol
I hear so many politicians and “forward thinking” Christians talking about social justice and helping the “least of these”. Abortion falls into that lump of poverty, genocide, human trafficking, and other injustices whether one admits it or not.
Here’s my idea for the next election, although it would be impossible to get everyone to agree to it…..
Every Christian believer in the U.S. registers as an Independent. We come together as Christians first and foremost. Agree we fight an enemy formed against all of us. Understand that all politicians are lying to us to some extent to divide us and get our vote. A time of unification and prayer. Then when election time comes we vote for our prefered candidate.
So many of us want the same thing, but have to choose political sides to get it accomplished. Why must we depend on government and put our “hope” in a candidate?
Ok; so we have to choose between the lesser of two evils here. Not much of a choice, I have to admit.
BUT if we don’t vote, for whatever the reason may be, then when it is all said and done, we haven’t a right to complain about squat. We can’t raise our voices in praise or disagreement with the president’s stand on abortion, the war in Iraq, or our current economic woos or even the way he brushes his teeth because we didn’t join the group and vote in the first place.
With that said, I’m still torn about whether or not to vote.
couple of things i noticed.
pastor t said he was fired up. annie told him not to get fired up. pastor t said that he wasn’t fired up (even though he said he was) and was not trying to emulate that emotion. contextually speaking, i’m not sure that emulate was the best use of words.
now i’m all fired up about pastor t being fired up and then annie calling him on it and then him saying he’s not at all fired up. this is turning into something that i would say emulates our current election season. he said, (s)he said. no – you said, i said. no, that one said that and i didn’t say that at all …
i also wonder a couple of other things. they are as follows:
1. brody, have you ever received so many responses to one of your blog postings in the past?
2. would it be possible to get all of these people in the same room and pass our boxing gloves?
3. do you think people would be as apt to say the things in person as they typed in somewhat anonymity?
4. where’s my damn answer?
5. i like that someone named their blog #4
6. how many people have actually read every single post?
7. do you believe in ghosts?
8. if you answered yes to #8, will you partner with me and vote for thomas jefferson for president 2008?
9. how many people think that i’m serious about voting for thomas jefferson?
10. why can’t we all just get along?
didn’t i learn anything in grad school? proofread, proofread, proofread …
Here is one thing to consider though: What have the Republicans done to reduce the level of abortions in our country over the past 8 years? Were there any attempts to overturn Roe v. Wade? Nothing happened that I am aware of. So should I give my vote to a party that says they are “pro family” but does little if nothing to bring any really impact to the situation? Let’s face it, one of the growing populations for women who get abortions these days are women who are already mothers but cannot afford another baby. Look, there are issues here and I do believe that people need to take responsibility for their actions, but economics, morality, and health care even are all related and we need to come up with solutions in our society that address some of these critical issues. Ones financial situation often influences our choices and our outlook on life. Call it what it is and label it wrong if you want to, but if we can work on the economy, we just might help produce hope in families who are in a situation where they feel that they cannot “afford” a child.
Besides, what about all the rest of the people who are struggling? Helping those who are here is extremely important. The Bible continually emphasizes the poor and that cannot be taken lightly. There are very serious consequences when people mess with the poor in the Bible. A read of Matthew 25 and taking that to heart is a pretty scary thing actually. Do I really love the “least of these”? We ought to embrace the poor and down-trodden in the world just as much as the unborn, shouldn’t we? Of course protecting the unborn is something of supreme importance, but giving more money to the rich and doing little for the pro-life movement (I am pro life) as the Republicans do, is something that I have a very difficult time supporting for another four years, not to mention a Republican administration who got us into Iraq, the hockey Mom, and an inferior plan for education reform from the McCain camp (“vouchers” is all I’ve heard as his solution thus far). Besides, if Republicans have so much value to campaign for, then why are they just attacking Obama so blatantly and outrageously at times rather than telling us what they are going to do? This is very suspect to me.
I’ll be honest to say that I have a very difficult time voting for a pro-choice candidate, but the Republicans are not God’s party just because they are pro-life.
Wow. I would have loved to read all those comments, but I need to go to bed right now. I’ll come back and read some more.
I’ve been struggling with this. While I agree with many above that abortion is not the only issue we should consider, I maybe give it more weight than others. I think we need to work on poverty, but I don’t necessarily know the best way to approach that in terms of domestic policy. The same goes for the environment, gay marriage, and several other issues.
But abortion? There is not a doubt in my mind as to what I believe. It’s murder. And Barack Obama has been one of the most liberal “pro-choice” candidates out there.
Statistics also show, however, that abortion rates DO NOT decrease because of anti-abortion legislation. They decrease when poverty decreases? Which candidate will do that better? I don’t know. McCain’s pro-life stance (as far as I can tell) entails nothing more than overturning Roe v. Wade which, as John Roberts and others have said, is HIGHLY unlikely. If you want to decrease abortion, you need to abandon abstinence-only education, help some poor mothers out, and fix the economy. I don’t know if either candidate has a plan that can do that.
On your post about not voting, everyone kept saying “vote your conscience.” My conscience is NOT ok with Barack Obama’s stance. I don’t even think McCain is as pro-life as some republicans like to claim he is, but Obama’s voting record scares me. While abortion isn’t the only important issue, I think that someone’s stance on “life” says a lot.
I’m going back and forth now. Basically, I don’t know.
Thanks, Brody, for being willing to say “I don’t know” on your blog, and for creating a community where everyone responds intelligently and kindly!
Man, oh man..Everything is all smooth, nice and fun….and then Jeff, the English professor, belittler of all, shows up.
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Not running from “fired up” Jeff. Simply forgot I used the words to promote a link
The reason for that, and your next critique, could be that this is a BLOG POST and not a RESEARCH PAPER. We click “submit” for responses and opinion, not grading.
Regardless of what words initially came to my mind, I have no doubt you understood my meaning. After all, you DID go to grad school. Who’s number one in your life, Jeff? LOL
All in good humor, of course. No sarcasm intended, no hard feelings, not fired up. If you believe that, please refer to Jeff’s number 8…Yes, number 8.
I’ve pretty much decided that I’m either voting third party, or writing in Donald Duck for President, and Mickey Mouse as VP. I’ve been tired of this election, and the race-baiting by the media, and the same old political bull crap from both the R’s and D’s, for MONTHS. The spin, the attacks, all of it. Presidential elections have devolved into soundbites and mantras, and juvenile name calling and Perez Hilton style gossipy attacks…it’s ridiculous, and I’m over it.
There are some local and state races that I do have my mind made up on, so I’m voting out of more care for those than the blasted presidential election.
I only hope that we actually have a clear winner, so next Wednesday I can breathe a sigh of relief that the circus has left town.
My final election thoughts:
http://www.therieslands.com/2008/10/31/final-election-thoughts/
Brody,
Here’s my thougts and I’ll try to keep it short. I am pretty sick and tired of “christians” sending me rhetoric about how a real “christian” could not vote for Obama because of his stance on abortion. Meanwhile, these same “christians” are shouting support for Mcain who supports war and the death penalty. Last time I checked, my Bible says “Thou shall not kill”. It doesn’t only say don’t kill unborn children, but kill period. I know a unbron child doesn’t have a voice, but neither does the kid killed by a mistargeted attack. And has anyone looked at the statistics of people put to death that DNA testing has proven to be not guilty. It’s quite interesting. This is just another example of hypocritical religious freaks acting the way they do and driving people away from Christ.
P.D.
truce.
let’s all vote for brody. after all, he did manage to get 90+ comments on one blog posting.
I think he’s going for 100.
Good words P.D. Ross. We need to realize that the Republican Party is not heaven on earth and the Democrats are not either. The Republicans have been identified as the party of faith, but let’s not forget that they use this as a platform to attract votes. Let’s critique this point very carefully.
P.D. Ross’s point is exactly why I struggled so hard to make a decision on whom to vote. Both parties are so divided on issues of life and death. Either way, life is lost. It’s heartbreaking. So on issues of life and death, I’m not hardcore either party. I’m hardcore on the issues themselves.
And honestly, I wonder if that is why so many of us are struggling at this election…
I am voting for Obama. I’ve never understood the evangelical rights obsession with abortion and gay marriage. These are two issues that the President’s viewpoint on rarely influences what happens. For 8 years, we’ve had a pro-lifer in the white house and abortion is still legal. For 8 years, we’ve had a “sanctity of marriage” type President in the white house, and yet states are still deciding this issue for themselves.
I serve in a denomination which has a beautiful stance on abortion. We believe that abortion should never be used as a form of birth control or gender selection. We believe that abortion isn’t really in God’s plan for His people. However, we believe that there are cases when an abortion could be considered (for example, if the mother’s life is at risk, if the pregnancy was a result of rape, incest, etc). Therefore, it’s believed that safe and legal options should be available. This is pretty close to what Obama has communicated…that he’d like to see fewer abortions, that he values life, but that safe and legal options should be available.
It’s weird though…most who stand against abortion and gay marriage are all about capital punishment and against gun control. Isn’t capital punishment similar to abortion? One person deciding whether or not another has the right to live?
Fe me, the bigger issues are how the President is going to care for the poor, the orphaned, the widowed, the outcasts. To me, Obama shows the most concern for the “have nots”. McCain seems to be looking out for big business and the wealthy.
Jason,
I think those are great points…..for campaign fodder. If you want to see how much Obama cares for the “have nots” just go check how much he gave of his own personal wealth to the “least of these”. See how he has helped his own family in distress. It’s not a slam, it’s just fact. Yet he wants to dictate how I help others? That’s okay, I like determining that myself.
You can tell everything about somebody how they live.
Here’s something else I wonder about: Why can’t the places we’ve been associated with over our lifetime be held responsible for shaping our thinking?
If I wanted to run for President 30 years from now, it absolutely could be held against me that in my 20’s I worked for “some conservative guy and his organization.” Because has my past choices in companies shaped my thinking? Of course it has. So why can’t working at ACORN, having William Ayers pay my way through Harvard and listening to Jeremiah Wright preach every Sunday for 20 years be allowed to play even the smallest role in the way Obama thinks about the world? Alas…
My pastor actually said something interesting this last Sunday and I nearly fell off my pew: God doesn’t ride on an elephant or a donkey!
That’s all…
I just wanted to help Brody get to 100!
#82 – Mike said: “Here’s my idea for the next election, although it would be impossible to get everyone to agree to it…..
Every Christian believer in the U.S. registers as an Independent. We come together as Christians first and foremost. Agree we fight an enemy formed against all of us. Understand that all politicians are lying to us to some extent to divide us and get our vote. A time of unification and prayer. Then when election time comes we vote for our prefered candidate.
So many of us want the same thing, but have to choose political sides to get it accomplished.”
The problem, of course, is whose Christianity are you going to go with? As one politician said in a speech a couple years ago,
“[E]ven if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson’s, or Al Sharpton’s? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount – a passage that is so radical that it’s doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application?”
100.